BluVegas Casino - Выигрыш игрока был уменьшен.

I deposited €20 with 300% bonus and 30 free spins on legacy of dead. I then managed to convert the 80€ (20€+60€ 300%) and had real money credit. I then won a lot up to over €40,000, but ultimately only paid out €2,500 and €1,000 via Paysafecard at the end and still had over €400 in the casino account. The payouts were being checked and today I received an email that the payouts have been canceled and the account balance has been changed to €200 real money with a picture of the bonus guidelines. The guidelines state that the maximum conversion amount is 10x the deposit, but not the maximum withdrawal! I have pictures where you can see that I have real money and no bonus balance, since I converted the bonus. And that's how I got the profits. The casino refuses to pay me my money, the chat keeps repeating the same thing. Please help me!!!

Ich habe 20 € mit 300% bonus und 30 freispielen bei legacy of dead eingezahlt. Habe daraufhin mit den 80€ (20€+60€ 300%) geschafft umzusetzen und hatte echtgeld Guthaben. Habe dann sehr viel gewonnen bis zu über 40.000€, habe aber letztendlich nur zum Ende hin 2500€ und 1000€ über Paysafecard ausgezahlt und hatte noch über 400€ auf dem casino Konto. Die Auszahlungen waren in prüfung und habe heute eine Mail erhalten, dass Auszahlungen storniert wurden und Kontoguthaben auf 200€ echtgeld geändert wurde mit einem Bild der Bonus Richtlinien. Die Richtlinien besagen, dass der maximale Umwandlungsbetrag 10x der einzahlung entspricht,aber nicht die maximale Auszahlung! Habe Bilder auf dem man sieht das ich echtgeld und kein Bonusguthaben habe, da ich den Bonus ja umgewandelt habe. Und damit die Gewinne erzielt habe. Das casino weigert sich mir mein geld auszuzahlen, der Chat wiederholt immer wieder dasselbe. Bitte hilft mir!!!

Dear Axelone94,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem.

I have checked the general bonus terms and conditions, and this is what I found (here):

• 2.9.2. The maximum cashable cap with every bonus claimed is 5000 EUR (or the equivalent in any other currency) for deposits of more than 50 EUR (or the equivalent in any other currency). Any deposit match bonus promotions triggered with deposits of 50 EUR and below (or the equivalent in any other currency) will be subjected to a maximum winning cap of (x10) ten times the amount of the original deposit.

I would like to emphasize, that according to our Fair Gambling Codex, we consider imposed win limit to be unfair and predatory, only when it’s applied to a real money game, however, we accept bonus T&Cs that restrict the maximum cash out from a bonus play.

Could you please advise if your winnings were capped after completing the bonus wagering or if you continued playing with the entire amount?

Ideally, please forward your game history to petronela.k@casino.guru.

Thank you in advance for your reply and I hope we will be able to help you as soon as possible.

Best regards,

Petronela

Dear Axelone94,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Can you please let us know if your winnings were capped after completing the bonus wagering or if you continued playing with the full amount?

Hello, my money was converted into real money after the conversion and was treated as such. I was able to keep playing and bet over €5. Played at €100 per spin. Even after I had over 7500€ in the payout and I wrote the chat several times when it will be processed and that they should please process it, after checking my account, not a word was mentioned!!!

Können Sie uns bitte mitteilen, ob Ihre Gewinne nach Abschluss des Bonuseinsatzes begrenzt wurden oder ob Sie mit dem gesamten Betrag weitergespielt haben?

Guten Tag, mein Geld wurde nach der Umsetzung in echtgeld umgewandelt und wurde auch so behandelt. Ich konnte weiterspielen und Einsätze über 5€ tätigen. Habe auf 100€ pro Dreh gespielt. Selbst nachdem ich über 7500€ in der Auszahlung hatte und ich den Chat mehrmals geschrieben habe, wann diese bearbeitet wird und das diese es bitte bearbeiten sollen, wurde nach Überprüfung meines Kontos kein Wort erwähnt!!!

Also won tournaments, completed missions and completed level ups to the final level which contained multiple real money prizes like €100, €250, €50 and more, but all my withdrawable money was cleared and reduced to €200!!!

Habe ebenso Turniere gewonnen, Missionen abgeschlossen und level ups abgeschlossen bis zum endlevel, welche mehrere echtgeld Preise wie 100€, 250€,50€ und mehr enthielten,aber mein ganzes auszahlbares Geld wurde gelöscht und auf 200€ reduziert!!!

I understand, Axelone94. However, in order to examine your game history we will need the entire file showing all spins. Could you please request it from the casino and forward it to petronela.k@casino.guru?

Just sent to you by email

Kind regards

Soeben per Email an Sie versendet

MfG

I'm sorry, Axelone94, but the forwarded game history doesn't include your balance or any info about the bonus.

What information does it contain?

Welche Informationen enthält er den?

I do not see your balance or active bonuses.

I send you these! If you open with CSV app you can see everything

Ich sende Ihnen diese! Wenn man mit CSV app öffnet kann man alles sehen

I'm very sorry but it's still the same.

I'm simply interested if after completing the bonus wagering was your active balance adjusted to €200 which would be the maximum cashout and then you continued playing with your real funds. Are there two balances inside your casino account? One for bonus funds and one for real money?

No my balance has not been adjusted to 200€ and yes there are 2 balances on my account. Bonus balance and real money balance. After completing the transaction, everything was switched to real money. Only after the payout was my real money reduced to €200.

Nein mein Guthaben wurde nicht auf 200€ angepasst und ja es gibt 2 Guthaben auf meinem Konto. Bonusguthaben und echtgeld Guthaben. Nach Abschluß des Umsatz wurde alles aufs echtgeld umgestellt. Erst nach der Auszahlung wurde mein echtgeld auf 200€ reduziert.

Thank you very much, Axelone94, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Michal (michal.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hello Axelone94,

I'm Michal and I have taken over your complaint. I have reviewed your case and I will contact the casino to shed more light on this.

We would like to invite BluVegas Casino to join the conversation.

Dear BluVegas Casino,

Can you please provide more information regarding the player's voided winnings? If the player gained their winnings with what appears to be real money, then there should be no limit implemented.

Hello,

We have investigated the player’s complaint, and we are very sorry that the player has found himself on this predicament, however we would like to point out that the player missed the observation of bonus term:

2.9.2. The maximum cashable cap with every bonus claimed is 5000 EUR (or the equivalent in any other currency) for deposits of more than 50 EUR (or the equivalent in any other currency). Any deposit match bonus promotions triggered with deposits of 50 EUR and below (or the equivalent in any other currency) will be subjected to a maximum winning cap of (x10) ten times the amount of the original deposit.

As stated by the player his deposit was of 20 euros, therefore crediting the player with 200 euros was correct since the maximum winning cap is 10x the original deposit. Regardless of converting his bonus into real cash, the winnings still derived from the original deposit and the promotion linked to this deposit.

As much as we understand the player’s point of view, is imperative to understand the terms and conditions agreed before accepting a bonus to avoid disappointment afterwards, as it is also the player’s choice to stick to the cash out limits or to continue playing.

It is to be taken into consideration as well, that our payments teams work as fast as possible to revise gameplays and avoid these issues, however it is not until a player requests a withdrawal that after a manual check the breach on terms is found. 

We invite you to see the bonus terms here https://www.bluvegas.com/bonus-terms

Regards,

Richard

Thank you for the response Richard / BluVegas Casino.

I understand that you have the 2.9.2. bonus rule and all players need to follow it, but it is not clear to me if the deduction to the maximum winning cap of 10x the original deposit was made right after the bonus wagering has finished or if it was done only after the player requested the withdrawal and after the player's gameplay check. Or in both instances?

When the player finished the bonus wagering and the bonus money was "converted" to real money, there shouldn't be a win cap anymore for real money play.

Can you please forward me the player's full gameplay history, as well as when the bonus wagering finished including the player's casino balance to my email michal.k@casino.guru?

Unfortunately, as per GDPR rules we are not in a position to directly provide you with the information you have requested, but as we can see the player provided you with this information beforehand.

As per your question, you may know it is the common rule to check gameplay when a withdrawal has been requested, in this case the deduction of the maximum winning cap was made after the withdrawal request, then the gameplay was checked and it was determined that it all was originated from the deposit made and linked to the promotion.

It is to be noted that our teams work tirelessly to revise gameplays to avoid any mishaps but as you might understand, it is simply not possible to check gameplays before an actual cash withdrawal is requested. Terms for bonuses are there to prevent and inform the players of the rules, it can also be considered predatory from the player side to ignore these terms and continue with a breach, as much as it would be predatory from the casino to ignore them to avoid paying fair winnings. 

Therefore we consider that this case was settled by the rules in favour of both parties and never with ill intent against the player. If the player is not satisfied with this, we would suggest the player to take this to our Alternative Dispute Resolution service provider EADR for dispute resolution. https://eadr.org/eadr-form/

Regrds,

Richard

Thank you for the response Richard / BluVegas Casino.

Dear Axelone94,

Unfortunately, we have come to a point, where we are not able to move forward with this complaint. There is not much that can be done now without the casino's cooperation in providing us with relevant evidence, so we would not be able to judge this situation completely.

I recommend you to submit a complaint to BluVegas Casino Alternative Dispute Resolution service provider EADR for dispute resolution https://eadr.org/eadr-form/ as Richard / BluVegas Casino suggested as well.

Please let me know when you do so and keep me updated if and how they replied at michal.k@casino.guru

Hello, 8vh have provided plenty of evidence and have more screenshots to send. I sometimes had over 30,000 thousand in the real money account and paid out €7,500 but canceled it again and finally let it be at €3900 and paid out €3500 and left 400 in the real money account. The thing is, had I played with the supposed real money games with in game collect bonus which probably in hindsight if I had continued to deposit and win would also have been counted as void. I had played one with a free spins bonus and also won over €800 and afterwards the entire balance was also reduced to €25 when I paid out. This casino is not fair to players and should be blacklisted. In my opinion, making a complaint there, which the casino recommended, does not make sense, because the casino will surely win there, since it has definitely gotten information.

Guten Tag, 8vh habe reichlich Beweise geliefert und habe noch mehr Screenshots, die ich senden kann. Ich hatte teilweise über 30000 tausend auf dem echtgeld Konto und habe 7.500€ ausgezahltaber wieder storniert und zum Ende es erst bei 3900€ es sein lassen und 3500€ zur Auszahlung gebracht und 400 auf dem echtgeld Konto gelassen. Die Sache ist die, hätte ich mit dem angeblichen echtgeld Spiele mit In game sammel bonus gespielt wäre der wahrscheinlich im nachhinein wenn ich weiter eingezahlt hätte und gewonnen auch als ungültig gezählt worden. Ich hatte mit einem freispiele bonus ein solches gespielt und auch über 800€ gewonnen und im Nachhinein wurde das ganze Guthaben bei Auszahlung ebenfalls auf 25€ reduziert. Dieses casino ist den Spielern gegenüber nicht fair und sollte auf die schwarze Liste. Eine Beschwerde dort zu machen, welches das casino empfohlen hat, ist meiner Meinung nach nicht sinnvoll, da dass casino dort sicherlich gewinnt, da es sich bestimmt information geholt hat.

I think it's ridiculous that a casino that I think is rated 8.8 here, at €3900, doesn't give me and you any insight. It certainly doesn't hurt the casino itself and they have admitted to having technical difficulties and that shouldn't be used as an excuse as it wasn't my fault

Das ein casino das hier mit ich glaube 8.8 bewertet ist, bei 3900€ keine Einsicht mir und euch gegenüber zu gibt, sehe ich als lächerlich an. Dem casino selber tut es bestimmt nicht weh und es hat auch zu gegebenen technische Schwierigkeiten zu haben und das sollte nicht als ausrede dienen, da dass nicht mein Fehler war

Dear Axelone94,

I fully understand your frustration, but we can't force the casino to cooperate with us, and sadly there is nothing that can be done now without the casino's cooperation in providing us with relevant evidence.

I strongly recommend you to submit a complaint to BluVegas Casino Alternative Dispute Resolution service provider EADR for dispute resolution https://eadr.org/eadr-form/ as Richard / BluVegas Casino suggested as well.

Please let me know when you do so and keep me updated if and how they replied at michal.k@casino.guru.

The EADR might have more options and tools to help players and if they decide this case in your favor, they can oblige the casino to pay your winnings.

Ok I'll do it and keep you posted

Okay werde ich machen und sie auf dem laufenden halten

Dear Axelone94,

We will close this complaint as unresolved - waiting for the regulator's decision.

Please let me know if and how EADR replied at michal.k@casino.guru.

Dear Axelone94,

We hope this message finds you well. We wanted to follow up on your case, which was marked as "Waiting for Regulator" on our website some time ago. We were wondering if there have been any updates or resolutions since our last conversation.

If your case has been resolved by the ADR (EADR), we kindly request you to forward us their official statement at michal.k@casino.guru. On the other hand, if the ruling was in favor of the casino, it would still be incredibly helpful for us to know. We understand that it has been a while, but updating your complaint will allow us to either issue black points to the casino (if the ruling was in your favor) or warn other players and users about cases where the Authority supports the operator.

We truly appreciate your cooperation, and your response would be of great assistance to us. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Michal

Good day,

I never sent an application to the authorities! Was hoping you could help me with that

Kind regards

Guten Tag,

Ich habe nie einen Antrag an die Behörde geschickt! Habe gehofft, dass Sie mir da weiterhelfen könnten

MfG

Dear Axelone94,

You previously wrote you will do that. To fill out the complaint form at EADR for dispute resolution https://eadr.org/eadr-form/ is straightforward, if you still require any assistance with it please feel free to email me at michal.k@casino.guru but please bear in mind we can't do this for you. The players themself's need to submit the form. The form can be filled out in German as well, so I believe you will easily manage that.

Please keep me informed when you submit the complaint form and how they responded

Hello, I just sent it to check

Guten Tag, habe es soeben gesendet zum überprüfen

Dear Axelone94,

Thank you for the update. I will now temporarily close this complaint again as unresolved - waiting for the regulator's decision.

Please make sure to let me know if and how EADR replied and decided at michal.k@casino.guru.

Dear Axelone94,
We hope you are doing well. We wanted you to provide an update regarding this case, which was previously marked as "Waiting for Regulator" on our website. Your complaint has now been automatically reopened, and we are eager to know if there have been any recent developments or resolutions since our last communication.
If the Licensing Authority has resolved your case and ruled in your favor, we kindly request you to update your complaint within the thread. Alternatively, if the ruling favored the casino, your input is equally valuable. We understand that some time has passed, but updating your complaint will allow us to take appropriate action, such as issuing black points to the casino in case the ruling is in your favor or warning other players and users about instances where the Authority supports the operator.
Thank you in advance for taking the time to reply.

Hello, I never received an answer! Can you please help me further with this

Guten Tag, habe nie eine Antwort erhalten! Können Sie mir bitte da weiter helfen

Dear Axelone94,

I'm sorry to hear that. I have not really dealt with EADR in the past, so I can't say if this is a usual approach from them or not, but I would expect them to provide you with an update on the process. I suggest you contact them again. I will send them an email as well to check if they will respond to me or not.

Dear Axelone94,

I have sent you an email. The EADR team has informed me that they are communicating with the Operator and they will notify you immediately once they receive a response.

I will now temporarily close this complaint again as unresolved - waiting for the regulator's decision.

If you still require any assistance with this please feel free to email me at michal.k@casino.guru

Dear Axelone94,
We hope this finds you well. We would like to ask you to provide an update regarding this case, which was previously marked as "Waiting for Regulator" on our website. Your complaint has now been automatically reopened, and we are eager to know if there have been any recent developments or resolutions since our last communication.
If the ADR or the Licensing Authority has resolved things in your favor, please update the thread and send over the official statement to my email. Alternatively, if the ruling favored the casino, your insights are just as crucial.
We understand that some time has passed, but updating your complaint will allow us to take appropriate action, such as issuing black points to the casino in case the ruling is in your favor or warning other players and users about instances where the authority supports the operator.
We truly appreciate your cooperation, and your response would be of great assistance to us.
Thank you in advance for your reply.

Hello, unfortunately I have not received a single message from the regulatory authority to date. Can you please help me and contact them as I just don't know what to do next.

Thank you

Guten Tag, ich habe bis heute keine einzige Nachricht von der Regulierungsbe höre erhalten leider. Können Sie mir da bitte weiterhelfen und diese kontaktieren, da ich einfach nicht mehr weiter weiß.

Vielen Dank

Dear Axelone94,

I'm sorry to hear that. That is rather unusual. Have you informed yourself at EADR about any progress via email more than once?

Dear Axelone94,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Thank you very much. Attached are the last messages I received

Kind regards

Vielen dank.im Anhang die letzten Nachrichten die ich erhalten habe

MFG

On February 4th I only received an automatic reply to my message. No contact so far 😔

Am 04.02 lediglich eine automatische Antwort bekommen auf meine Nachricht. Bisher kein Kontakt 😔

Although it says that they need around 90 days to solve a case and decide for the player if the casino doesn't get in touch within that time

Obwohl da steht, dass die ca.90 Tage brauchen um einen Fall zu lösen und für den Spieler zu entscheiden, sofern sich das Casino in der Zeit nicht meldet

Dear Axelone94,

I understand your anticipation for more substantial progress in your case. However, it's essential to note that EADR is an independent entity, and the resolution of issues rests with them. As Casino Guru, we lack the authority to influence their processes. While this response may not meet your expectations, the current course of action is to patiently await the decision from EADR. To expedite the process, you may consider reaching out to EADR regularly (let's say every week) for updates on your case.

I will now again temporarily close this complaint again as unresolved - waiting for the regulator's decision.

Please make sure to let me know if and how EADR replied and decided at michal.k@casino.guru.

Best regards,

Michal

Casino Guru