Enzo Casino - Игроку сложно вывести свой выигрыш из бонусной игры.

good evening, I wanted to better specify the complaint sent a few hours ago by entering more precise data. On 4 February I received an insurance bonus from the enzocasino customer service of 143 euros equal to 20% of all my deposits to ask me not to close the account as I had asked several times for lack of winnings. I played and fulfilled the requirements of the bonus until I reached the quota of 849 and requested the withdrawal of this sum on February 5th. I immediately sent the documents they requested. since then I started to comment after a few days as the terms and conditions were written up to 5 working days. but they started telling me that before they paid platinum black levels and after gold like me. and that I would have to continue to deposit to raise the level and have my withdrawal request processed, otherwise the time would have been very long. I made another deposit and won more money until I changed my withdrawal request to 2500 on February 11th. I enclose screenshots of the chats in which they tell me to deposit on the weekend so that on Monday my request would be processed. I deposited again and I won again up to 4500 euros. I changed my withdrawal request again so on February 22nd. I received emails on February 23, today, which recognized me only 500 euros because for levels like mine they could not give me all the money but that I would have to deposit again to raise the level and have more money. I also attach the last chat tonight.

buonasera, volevo specificare meglio il reclamo mandato qualche ora fa inserendo dati più precisi. ll giorno 4 febbraio ho ricevuto un bonus assicurativo da parte del servizio clienti di enzocasino di 143 euro pari al 20% di tutti i miei depositi per invitarmi a non chiudere l account come io avevo chiesto più volte per mancanza di vincite. ho giocato e soddisfatto i requisiti del bonus fino a raggiungere la quota di 849 e richiedere il prelievo di tale somma il giorno5 febbraio. ho inviato subito i documenti che mi hanno richiesto. da allora ho cominciato dopo qualche giorno a solllecitare in quanto sui termini e condizioni c era scritto fino a 5 giorni lavorativi. ma hanno cominciato a dirmi che prima pagavano i livelli platinum black e dopo gold come me. e che avrei dovuto contnuare a depositare per alzare il livello e vedere processata la mia richiesta di prelievo altrimenti i tempi sarebbero stati molto lunghi. ho fatto un altro deposito e ho vinto altri soldi fino ad cambiare la mia richiesta di prelievo a 2500 all 11 febbraio. allego screenshot delle chat in cui mi dicono di depositare nel weekend in modo che poi lunedi la mia richiesta sarebbe stata processata. ho depositato ancora e ho vinto ancora fino ad arrivare a 4500 euro. ho cambiato ancora la mia richiesta di prelievo quindi il 22 febbraio. ho ricevuto mail il 23 febbraio ,oggi, che mi riconoscevano solo 500 euro perchè per i livelli come il mio non potevano darmi tutti i soldi ma che avrei dovuto depositare ancora per alzare il livello e avere più soldi. allego anche l'ultima chat di stasera.

Dear Barbara,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your negative experience. I have checked the terms and conditions, but I didn’t find a connection between amount of deposits and time needed to process a withdrawal (https://www.enzocasino.com/vip/?lang=en). We will contact the casino and ask for their standpoint, but, before we do so, please could you clarify which VIP tier you are now and if there is any pending withdrawal that you have requested, but wasn’t approved. Thank you in advance for your reply. I believe, we will be able to help you resolving this issue as soon as possible.

Best regards,

Petronela

Good morning and thanks for the help. I am gold level. Yesterday I received an email from them that they had accepted my request for 500 euros. I made a new withdrawal request of 3000 euros now pending.

Buongiorno e grazie per l aiuto. Io sono livello gold. Ieri ho ricevuto una loro mail che mi avevano accettato richiesta di 500 euro. Ho fatto una nuova richiesta di prelievo di 3000 euro ora in sospeso. 

I wanted to clarify that by replaying the same money on the account I had reached more than 5000. In the meantime I asked for 3000 pending. Thank you.

Volevo precisare che rigiocando gli stessi soldi sul conto ero arrivata a più di 5000. Intanto ne ho chiesti 3000 in sospeso. Grazie. 

Thank you very much Barbara for providing all the necessary information. I will transfer now your complaint to my colleague Matej who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Thanks so much

Grazie mille

good morning, I wanted to tell you that today enzo casino has rejected my request for 3000 euros. he disappeared the 2700 euros that I had in my account because under the bonus terms and conditions I had exceeded 30%. they gave me back my 50 euros that I had deposited.

I just wanted to say this. they spent a week telling me that I wanted my withdrawal request to be processed I had to file otherwise the waiting times would have been very long. I did wrong what they wanted. when the request was finally processed, they only recognized me 500 euro because having a gold level I could not withdraw the sum of 2500 euro all together. replaying I won again and at the request for a withdrawal of 3000 euro they reject it saying that I have exceeded 30% of the minimum bet. but the 500 euros if they arrive at this point I doubt everything was always part of the same bonuses and deposits. they don't want to pay me such a high sum. this is the only explanation. I look forward to your reply. thank you

buongiorno, volevo ggiornarvi che oggi enzo casino ha respinto la mia richiesta di 3000 euro. ha fatto sparire i 2700 euro che avevo sul conto in quanto in base ai termini e condizioni bonus avevo superato il 30%. mi hanno ridato i miei 50 euro che avevo depositato.

volevo solo dire questa cosa . hanno passato una settimana a dirmi che volevo che la mia domanda di prelievo fosse processata dovevo depositare altrimenti i tempi di attesa sarebbero stati molto lunghi. ho fatto sbagliando quello che volevano loro. quanto finalmente è stata processata la richiesta mi hanno riconosciuto solo 500 euro perchè avendo un livello gold non potevo prelevare tutta insieme quellla somma di 2500 euro. rigiocando ho vinto di nuovo e alla richiesta di prelievo di 3000 euro la respingono dicendo che ho superato il 30% della puntata minima. ma i 500 euro ammesso che arrivino a questo punto dubito di tutto facevano parte sempre degli stessi bonus e degli stessi depositi. loro non vogliono riconoscermi una somma cosi' alta. questa è l unica spiegazione. aspettto con ansia una vostra risposta. grazie

hi, I saw that your response is waiting ... do I have to send other documentation that can help you?

salve, ho visto che la vostra risposta si fa attendere...devo inviare altra documentazione che vi possa aiutare?

Hello Barbara.

Your case would be a bit complicated. Enzo casino has in its terms and conditions rules, which is a combination of playing with real money we consider as predatory:

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:

Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play.
Using Martingale, double-up and similar systems and strategies.

If a player's accumulated deposit amount does not exceed €200, player will be entitled only up to X10 last deposit. This maximum payout will be enforced also in cases where the player made additional deposits which were deemed at the sole discretion of the Casino to have been made in order to exceed the €200 accumulated deposit amount.
 

There are two possible situations:

1) you make the bets higher than 30% of your deposit while you played with bonus. In this case, the casino has the right to limit your winnings

2) you make the bets higher than 30% of your deposits while you played without the bonus. In this case, we consider this case as against our fair gambling codex: https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos Unfortunately, they are not winning to change this rule nor make some exception. So technically we punish them with lowering the rating you will not get your money.

The casino is licensed in Curacao where is a low chance that somebody will answer or take the complaint seriously. An even if that happened, they reject the complaint and as accuse they use the phrase that you agreed with terms and there is written 30% ...

So I am very sorry for the bad news. If you still have your game history and bonus history, send it here please I would like to analyze it and check when exactly (and if) you breach the terms.

good morning, I no longer have the history because it has been deleted. but having deposited 30 euros and having played them without bonuses it is real money I definitely played exceeding 30%. but I thought this condition only applied to bonus deposits. I believe there is little to do. what do you say?

buongiorno, io non ho più la cronologia perchè è stata cancellata. ma avendo depositato 30 euro e avendoli giocati senza bonus è denaro reale ho sicuramente giocato superando il 30%. ma pensavo che questa condizione valesse solo per i depositi con bonus. credo che ci sia poco da fare. voi cosa dite?

I WANTED TO UPDATE THAT I REQUESTED THE CLOSURE OF THE GAME ACCOUNT AT ENZO CASINO. I HOPE THEY DO IT BECAUSE EVERY TIME I REQUESTED IT THEY HAVE NEVER DONE IT.

IF I STILL WANT TO PLAY PLAY ON CASINO AAMS I BELIEVE ARE MUCH SAFER. THANK YOU.

VOLEVO AGGIORNARVI CHE HO RICHIESTO LA CHIUSURA DEL CONTO GIOCO PRESSO ENZO CASINO. SPERO LO FACCINO PERCHè OGNI VOLTA CHE L HO RICHIESTO NON L HANNO MAI FATTO.

SE VORRò ANCORA GIOCARE GIOCHERO SU CASINO AAMS CHE CREDO SIANO MOLTO PIù SICURI. GRAZIE.

Thank you, Barbara, for an update.

I want to try to get the game history from the casino to understand better what happened. As I wrote before there are two possible situations here. Who has right depends on the fact if you played with bonus or not when you violated the 30% max bet rule.

Hi I at this point I violated the rule certainly without bonuses and I absolutely did not violate the rule with their first bonus because it was 149 euros and I played maximum 10 euros in bets. The first withdrawal request came from this bonus and was € 849. They recognized me 500 euros.

Salve io a questo  punto ho violato la regola sicuramente senza bonus e non ho assolutamente violato la regola con il loro primo bonus perché era di 149 euro e io ho giocato massimo 10 euro di puntata. La prima richiesta di prelievo arrivava da questo bonus ed era di 849 euro. Loro mi hanno riconosciuto 500 euro.  

We would like to ask the Enzo Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

thank you. they will never answer because they are unfortunately dishonest. with the initial € 149 bonus I have not violated the bonus terms and conditions. I have never made bets over 10 euros. I hope you will lower your score to zero.

grazie. tanto non risponderanno mai perche sono dei disonesti purtroppo. con il bonus di 149 euro iniziale non ho assolutamente violato i termini e condizioni del bonus. non ho mai fatto puntate superiori ai 10 euro.  spero che gli abbasserete il punteggio a zero.

Dear Barbara

We appreciate you bringing this matter to our attention.

We investigated your concerns and here is our finding.

We must say this is indeed a complicated issue because you had cancelled several withdrawal requests and every time you’ve requested a new one, it changes the sources and the application of the terms and conditions.

On the 5th of February 2020, you requested a withdrawal of 849 Euro, the source for this withdrawal request is 2 assurance bonuses:

• Assurance bonus ID 1536189 of 143.40 EUR

• Assurance bonus ID 1536188 of 143.40 EUR

No irregular play but on the 11th of February 2020, you cancelled the said withdrawal request and requested withdrawal ID 1559252 for 2,500 Euro.

The source of winnings for withdrawal ID 1559252 of 2500 Euro are as follows:

• Assurance bonus ID 1536189 of 143.40 EUR

• Assurance bonus ID 1536188 of 143.40 EUR

• deposit ID 1558159 of 20 EUR

• Deposit Bonus ID 1558160 of 20 EUR

Here you made an irregular play under the bonus rules "15. The Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings and Bonuses for irregular play. "Irregular play" may include, but is not limited to:

• Placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the smallest bonus credited to the player account, prior to the total wager requirement for that balance having been met."

Despite the irregular play, your Account Manager had approved a withdrawal of 500Euro as goodwill gesture as you have been a valued player at the casino.

Before this decision can be applied on your account, you have cancelled the withdrawal ID 1559252 and created a new one with withdrawal ID 1613084 for 4500 Euro.

Withdrawal ID 1613084 sources are as follows:

• Assurance bonus ID 1536189 of 143.40 EUR

• Assurance bonus ID 1536188 of 143.40 EUR

• deposit ID 1558159 of 20 EUR

• Deposit Bonus ID 1558160 of 20 EUR

• Deposit ID 1613030 of 30 Euro

Irregular play the bonus terms still exist on your gameplay.

Further we see that the casino support agent has had explained to you the rules when you received a bonus and how much you can bet. Throughout your gameplay, you failed to follow the said betting rules.  Unfortunately, the casino decision to cut your winnings is correct under the terms.  

Lastly, for account closure request please contact the casino directly.

Kind regards

Compliance @ENZO

Perfect. All correct. But I find it highly incorrect that the chat staff compel you to deposit again to see the withdrawal request processed. Didn't Enzo see these chats?

I would never have deposited again ... Just because they blackmailed me to always deposit to process my request I did it .. Otherwise my 849 euros were fine.

Perfetto. Tutto corretto. Ma trovo altamente scorretto che il personale in chat ti costringa depositare ancora per vedere processata la richiesta di prelievo.  Queste chat il casinò Enzo no le ha viste? 

Non avrei mai depositato ancora... Solo perché mi ricattavano di depisitare sempre per processare la mia richiesta l ho fatto.. Altrimenti i miei 849 euro andavano benissimo. 

Thank you Enzo Casino representatives for the explanation.

As I explained before we dislike two rules which causes a lot of problems and anger a lot of players:

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play. Using Martingale, double-up and similar systems and strategies. If a player's accumulated deposit amount does not exceed €200, player will be entitled only up to X10 last deposit. This maximum payout will be enforced also in cases where the player made additional deposits which were deemed at the sole discretion of the Casino to have been made in order to exceed the €200 accumulated deposit amount.

But these rules are predatory only in combination with real money play.  

Because Barbara breached these rules with bonus play we are on the casino side here. (The casino is still punished that they have these predatory conditions in their terms but that does not concern this case)

We appreciate that despite the fact that Barbara breached T&C's the casino allowed her to withdraw part of the winnings.

After this point, something happened, if Barbara already knew what she should not to do, why then again cancelled the withdrawal and made the same mistake again?

Encouraging a player to deposit to raise a VIP level, well, you can do that, but with a combination of rule:

Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play. 

It might be very unethical in case your support didn't explain the risks.

Suggestion for the casino:  

If a player's accumulated deposit amount does not exceed €200, player will be entitled only up to X10 last deposit. This maximum payout will be enforced also in cases where the player made additional deposits which were deemed at the sole discretion of the Casino to have been made in order to exceed the €200 accumulated deposit amount.

This rule can be easily substituted by putting x10 max win rule to all your bonuses.

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play.Using Martingale, double-up and similar systems and strategies.

It is much better to substitute this rule with some fixed value for bonus play like €5 and for real play don't use such a predatory rule.

Martingale or different strategies doesn't work so you don't need to limit them (€5 max bet is fixing the double up issue)

I know that probably this is not in your power but at least think about it.

Barbara: Do you still have some of the chats where the casino support encourage you to deposit?

Enzo Casino: Do you still have chat where your support guy explained to Barbara what did she wrong and how she should play?

Please send me everything relevant what you have to: matej@casino.guru

On Monday we have a meeting where we discuss about complicated or uncertain cases. I want to take this case there.

hi, no i am not in possession of any chet. but I had sent them all to you.

enzo casino cannot have any chat in which the boy explains to me what I did wrong but above all how I had to play because they never did. they specifically lead you to error.

salve, no io non sono in possesso più di nessuna chet. ma le avevo inviate tutte a voi.

enzo casino non può avere nessuna chat in cui il ragazzo mi spiega cosa ho sbagliato  ma soprattutto come dovevo giocare perchè non l hanno mai fatto. ti inducono appositamente all errore. 

Barbara, after your €2500 withdrawal was cancelled the casino informed you that you breached the terms, did they?

Based on what they post here they allowed you to withdraw €500, but you cancelled this withdrawal. Why?

You must have some emails from them when they told you about their decision, didn't you?

Please send me these emails. I would like to look at them.

My email address: matej@casino.guru

when my withdrawal was rejected they did not tell me that I had violated the terms but that the impossibility of withdrawing this figure was due to my low VIP level and they could not recognize me such a large figure. to wait until they accepted that and then to make another withdrawal request (this all via chat). in the end they recognized me 500 euros but I sure didn't refuse them. I got them. going in chat I asked why they had not accepted my request and then they told me that I had violated the terms. now I look if I still have these emails but I'm not sure

quando il mio prelievo è stato respinto non mi hanno detto che avevo violato i termini ma che l impossibilità di prelevare questa cifra era data dal mio basso livello vip e non mi potevano riconoscere una cifra così grande. di aspettare che accettavano quella e poi di fare un altra richiesta di prelievo ( questo tutto via chat). alla fine mi hanno riconosciuto 500 euro ma io certo che non li ho rifiutati . li ho presi. andando in chat ho chiesto perchè non avevano accettato la mia richiesta ed allora mi hanno detto che avevo violato i termini. ora guardo se ho ancora queste mail ma non ne sono sicura

no as I feared I no longer have any email about it but I can assure you that when my request was rejected in chat they told me that it was because of my VIP levels and I could not withdraw this sum. to continue depositing and playing. when they sent me the email that had accepted only 500 euros I went to chat and asked for explanations they told me that I had violated the terms. I remember that the operator was called anita.

no come temevo non ho più nessuna mail al riguardo ma ti posso assicurare che quando la mia richiesta è stata respinta in chat mi hanno detto che era per via del mio livelli vip e non potevo ritirare tale somma. di continuare a depositare e giocare. quando mi hanno mandato la mail che avevano accettato solo 500 euro sono andata in chat e ho chiesto spiegazioni mi hanno detto che avevo violato i termini. ricordo che l operatore si chiamava anita.

by email they only told me that my withdrawal request had been rejected. "your withdrawal request was rejected." without any explanation. followed by another email that said "your withdrawal request for 500 euros was accepted" without ever having asked me to withdraw 500 euros. it was then that I went to chat to ask for explanations and then they told me that I had violated the terms of the game and they recognized me 500 euros.

what was not clear from the start was their insistence on having me filed if I wanted to see my request processed as per the chat I sent.

and then once deposited again and I won again violating the terms I updated the withdrawal request but no one ever told me that I could not withdraw because I had violated the terms because I had too low a VIP level and the figure was too high.

only after when I asked for explanations in chat did they hate me. there is nothing clear in what happened. I insist. they lead you to error in order not to recognize the sum won.

via mail mi hanno solo detto che la mia richiesta di prelievo era stata respinta. "la sua richiesta di prelievo è stata respinta". senza nessuna spiegazione. seguita poi da u n altra mail che diceva "la sua richiesta di prelievo di euro 500 è stata accettata" senza che io mai avevo chiesto di ritirare 500 euro. fu allora che sono andata in chat a chiedere spiegazioni e allora mi dissero che avevo violato i termini di gioco e mi avevano riconosciuto 500 euro.

quello che non è stato chiaro fin da subito era la loro insistenza nel farmi depositare se volevo vedere processata la mia richiesta come da chat che ho inviato.

e poi una volta depositato nuovamente e ho vinto ancora stavolta violando i termini ho aggiornato la richiesta di prelievo ma nessuno mi ha mai detto che non potevo prelevare perchè avevo violato i termini maperchè avevo un livello vip troppo basso e la cifra era troppo alta.

solo dopo quando ho chiesto spiegazioni in chat me l hann odetto. non cè niente di chiaro in ciò che è successo.  insisto. ti inducono all errore per non riconoscerti la somma vinta.

Please be advised that requested information was provided by email to matej@casino.guru

Regards

Compliance Team

I have already checked them.

From the chat transcript, it is clear that the support agent provided Barbara with accurate information. He also didn't encourage her to increase VIP level, just informed her that requests from VIP players are processed first.  

He also explained to her that even system allowed her to make a withdrawal this withdrawal must be first checked.

(Chat agent Paolo)

From what casino sent us everything is correct, I am sorry Barbara, in case that you have some evidence where do you think casino failed, please send them to me. Otherwise, I would reject your complaint because we believe that the casino followed the rules.

Good morning. He encouraged me to increase the VIP level but he also told me that if I didn't file my request it would be processed in a very long time. But it does nothing. It went like this. By now I have already closed the account with them and I don't want to know anything more. Thanks for all that you have done.

Buongiorno. Mi ha incoraggiata ad aumentare il livello vip ma mi ha anchedetto che ese non depositavo la mia richiesta sarebbe stata processata in tempi molto lunghi. Ma non fa nulla. È andata così. Ormai ho già chiuso il conto con loro e non voglio saperne più nulla. Grazie per tutto quelloche avete fatto. 

sorry one last thing and then enough, I don't know what enzocasino presented to you, but all the explanations they say they gave were made after I had played, because never knowing exactly the rules would I not have had to respect them knowing that I lost everything?

scusi un ultima cosa e poi basta , non so cosa vi abbia presentato enzocasino, ma tutte le spiegazioni  che loro dicono di avere dato sono state fatte dopo che io avevo giocato, perchè mai sapendo esattamente le regole avrei non dovuto rispettarle sapendo di perdere tutto?

I understand how you are feeling. We created this website to rate casinos and recommend to players the good ones, and as you can see, Enzo Casino has Questionable reputation. When you are taking a bonus, it's similar to if you buy a SIM card or rent a car. You sign a contract where are described all the situations. If you buy a SIM card and call to Australia and expect that you will pay the same amount as calling to Italy, you would be surprised when the bill comes.  

The point is that every player should always carefully read all the bonus terms.

We know that most players don't want to do that. That is the reason why we are giving the Fair and Safe badges to the casinos.

If the casino has a Fair badge, you can be sure that all casino terms are fair and the casino can't cheat you.

If the casino has a Safe badge, then all terms are enforced by a casino and casino not let you breach their terms.

My recommendation for you is to play only in Safe casinos.

Because we already explained what happened and Barbara didn't ask any other questions I am closing this complaint as "rejected."