IceBet Casino - Бонусные выигрыши игрока были уменьшены.

Dear Casino Guru

I would like to describe to you my problem with this particular casino.

I made my third deposit and received the 3rd deposit casino offer of 200%.

I completed the required wager (Bonus + Deposit x35) and I had a balance of € 34.65 (when the wager complete).

I continued with them and finally won 362€ And I made a withdrawal € 400 at 5/3/2022.

I verified my account where I received a relevant mail on Monday 7/3/2022 that it was fully verified.

Seeing that my withdrawal is delayed, I spoke at Wednesday 9/3/2022 in chat and they informed me that it was canceled by IceBetFinancial Department and credited the amount of € 34.65.

They also say that they sent me an email which I never received!

I quote you below exactly as they explained to me the reason my withdraw was canceled :

"Milana: I will send you the text of the email sent by the finance department to you:

Dear Michail.

We inform you, that your withdrawal payment in the amount of 400 EUR has been canceled by IceBet Financial Department.

We inform you that a sum of 365.38 EUR has been debited from your game account, according to the bonus rules 3.3:

3.3 The maximum withdrawal amount from the received bonus: 34.65 EUR.

Regards, Finance Department!"

I attach you a relevant screenshot from the conversation.

At 3.3 of the bonus rules it says that:

3.3. The maximum withdrawal amount from the received bonus:

€1500 / C$2000 / 15000 kr / 7000 zł / R$9000 / 530000 Ft / A$2300 / NZ$2700. (screenshot 1)

After I told them that at 3.3 it says the above they told me about 3.7.

3.7 In the case of bonus wagering, the player has the opportunity to withdraw the amount that was at the time of wagering bonus, but not more than the maximum amount available for withdrawal under this offer.

Today 10/3/2022 I received a new mail where they correct our first conversation claiming another article.

Which does not say anywhere,if I understand correctly, that the profit from the bonus after the wager will be what will be left ...

I have tried until today with communications with them to understand why in my case the withdrawal amount is what they say but nothing has been done.

Mail is at your disposal whenever requested.

I enclose a screenshot from our conversation at 9/3/2022, from the mail at 10/3/2022, from the withdraw, from the balace after wager complete, from the win and from the terms of the bonus.

I apologize for my bad English but it is not very good. I hope you understand.

For anything you need at your disposal.

I hope you help me.

Yours sincerely

Michail P

Dear Papaleole,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and forwarding all the relevant communication. I’m sorry to hear about your problem.

Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely. Have you redeemed any promotional offers from this casino in the past? Do I understand correctly that the only reason to confiscate your bonus winnings seems to be that you haven't requested a withdrawal right after completing bonus wagering, but instead, you continued playing?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

yes I have redeemed two more bonuses in this particular casino on the 1st and 2nd deposit without being able to complete the wager. Yes, I continued to play when I completed the wager as shown in the screenshot I sent you.

Does not say anywhere in the terms that the withdrawal amount will be what it will be immediately after the completion of the wager except that the maximum amount will be 1500 €.

Thank you, Papaleole, for your reply. I have checked the rules for the Third Deposit bonus and this is what I found:

"Terms & Conditions

...

3.2. The maximum amount of bonus on the third deposit:

€1000 / C$1500 / 10000 kr / 4500 zł / R$6000 / 350000 Ft / A$1600 / NZ$1800.

...

3.7. In the case of bonus wagering, the player has the opportunity to withdraw the amount that was at the time of wagering bonus, but not more than the maximum amount available for withdrawal under this offer."

There is nowhere written that players have to withdraw their winnings right after completing bonus wagering. It states that they have the opportunity to do so. This is understandable as bonus winnings can be only withdrawn once the bonus wagering was completed. However, if a player continues playing with bonus winnings and doesn't breach any bonus rules they should be entitled to any further winnings up to maximum cashout available.

Therefore, I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Branislav (branislav.b@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Thank you Petronela.

Let me correct you. The above paragraph (3,2) is about the maximum you can receive.

For the withdrawal is paragraph 3.3

....

3.3. The maximum withdrawal amount from the received bonus:

€1500 / C$2000 / 15000 kr / 7000 zł / R$9000 / 530000 Ft / A$2300 / NZ$2700.

....

In any case, the balance of my withdrawal does not exceed this amount.

Have a wonderful day.

Hello, Papaleole,

I am sorry to hear that your withdrawal has been delayed. I will contact the casino and try my best to resolve the issue as soon as possible. Now I would like to invite IceBet Casino's representative to join this conversation and participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear IceBet Casino Team, could you please state the reason why the player's winnings were deducted from his balance? Can you clarify the situation from your point of view? Based on the information provided by the player, the bonus was completely wagered (according to the casino's terms and conditions) and credited to the real money balance - available for further playing.

Thank you in advance for providing the information.

Dear Papaleole.

We have carefully examined your complaint.

We draw your attention to the fact that the bonuses on the welcome bonus package have a limit on both winnings and withdrawals.

At the time of converting 200% bonus received on the Welcome Bonus Package for the third deposit, you had no funds in your real account and 34.65EUR in your bonus account. After the conversion, your real account was 34.65EUR.

Rule : 3.7 states that no player was not able to withdraw more money than he had at the moment of bonus converting into real money and the remaining funds that will be played on top of the amount of converted bonus are subject to write-off.

For this reason, your request to withdraw 400EUR was canceled by the financial department and your game balance was brought to the amount of 34.65EUR which was at the moment of bonus conversion, and this amount you could withdraw from the casino.

As we see, unfortunately, at the moment you have lost all the money you had in your gaming account.

Please note that these restrictions apply only to bonuses received on the Welcome Bonus Package, the other offers taking place in our casino, there are no restrictions on winning and withdrawal bonuses. 

If you have any additional questions, we will be glad to help you.

Dear icebet.

I see this paragraph in the terms of the bonus ...

3.7. In the case of bonus wagering, the player has the opportunity to withdraw the amount that was at the time of wagering bonus, but not more than the maximum amount available for withdrawal under this offer."

…

End you write me this paragraph!

…

3.7 states that no player was not able to withdraw more money than he had at the moment of bonus converting into real money and the remaining funds that will be played on top of the amount of converted bonus are subject to write-off.

….

Which say completely different things.

If this does not violate the terms on your part, then I do not know what it is ...

Dear IceBet,

Rule 3.7 says (in different words) the following -> if the player meets bonus wagering requirements, the amount can be withdrawn up to the maximum withdrawal amount stated in rule 3.3. This amount has not been exceeded.

Another fact - if the bonus amount is credited to the real money balance after meeting the wagering requirements, why rule 3.7 is still applied? Once the money is credited to the real money balance, those are real money, not bonus money anymore.

Let me please ask you questions for a better understanding of the situation.

If a player is allowed to withdraw the funds/winnings after wagering the bonus and not allowed to play with them immediately - what is the difference for the casino between withdrawing the funds after wagering the bonus and depositing them back to the casino account, and playing with them right after crediting the funds into the real money balance? How is the player informed that the winnings will be deducted once the player continues with playing after meeting the wagering requirements without withdrawing the real money balance?

To be honest, applying rule 3.7 does not make any sense in this situation and seems to be fishy and really unfair for the players accepting and redeeming these bonus offers.

Dear Branislav.

Rule 3.7 informs that the player can not withdraw more than the amount that is in the game account at the time of the wagering the bonus. When withdrawing funds according to this rule 3.7 each player receives a notification by e-mail. 

In the case of Papaleole he was also informed that he can withdraw no more than 34.65 EUR he had at the time of wagering. 

We would like to reiterate that this rule applies only to the Welcome Bonus. On other offers, there are no restrictions on bonus withdrawal/win from our casino. 

You asked to clarify the difference between withdrawing funds after the bonus is recouped and depositing them back to the casino account, and playing with them immediately after they are credited to a real account. The difference is that there is no limit on the amount of withdrawal imposed on the deposit made by the player. In the case of real funds received from the welcome bonus, there are restrictions and the player can not withdraw more than the amount allowed by the rules of the proposal. As you can see all actions in relation to the player Papaleole were made strictly within the rules and conditions of the welcome bonus. The player could freely receive/withdraw his winnings from the welcome bonus of 34.65 EUR.

Also, we want to inform that bonuses at our casino are not sticky and don't oblige you to anything. Each player at our casino can decide whether to wag the bonus or not. All wagering bonus rules for each offer we always publish and do not hide from a single client of our casino.

Dear IceBet Casino team,

I would like to comment on your statements (again) and ask a few more questions.

"Rule 3.7 informs that the player can not withdraw more than the amount that is in the game account at the time of the wagering the bonus. When withdrawing funds according to this rule 3.7 each player receives a notification by e-mail."

Yes, but wagering was done and the bonus money became real money. How can the casino apply this rule to real money balance? Although the winnings were obtained from the bonus, the player met the wagering requirements to convert this bonus balance into real money. That is the main meaning of wagering requirements and the player met them. From this moment we do not talk about bonus money anymore. The rest of your comment is irrelevant due to the fact that rule 3.7 should have not been applied in this situation at all.

"In the case of Papaleole he was also informed that he can withdraw no more than 34.65 EUR he had at the time of wagering."

When was he informed about it? After requesting the withdrawal or after meeting the wagering requirements? Was it an automatically generated email? Can you prove the player received this information (or the casino sent this information) before he started playing with real money after the bonus conversion into real money? However, that is also irrelevant because the winnings confiscation was done based on the incorrectly used rule or not clear rule.

"We would like to reiterate that this rule applies only to the Welcome Bonus. On other offers, there are no restrictions on bonus withdrawal/win from our casino."

I still only can see the one restriction - the maximum withdrawal amount (€1500), that was not exceeded. Valid for the bonus money, not real money. Nothing else.

Why rule 3.7 is not explained in more detail in the casino's terms and conditions? In this way, it does not say what you tried to explain above at all.

Could the casino reconsider its decision and allow the player to use the confiscated real funds, please? If the casino's decision is final, I am afraid there is nothing more we can do in this case and we will be forced to close this complaint as unresolved.

Good evening.

I would like to add two things.

First: I did not receive any notification by e-mail. And after discussions with you I received mail from both the support and the kyc departments.

Second: After completing the wager why could I play slots that are restricted with an active bonus (eg reactoonz, moon princess)??? This does not mean complete release from the bonus i received???

Icebet please reconsider your decision in my case. Thank you very much.

We would like to ask IceBet Casino Team to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’, which will have a negative impact on the casino's rating.

Dear Papaleole,

Unfortunately, based on the gathered information, we are forced to close this complaint as unresolved.

I am afraid we are not able to help you with this one since the casino seems to ignore the facts and made its decision. I recommend turning to the Curacao Gaming Authority (certria@gaminglicences.com) and submitting a complaint to them, but there is no guarantee of a positive outcome.

I understand this is not a satisfactory solution to your issue. However, the decrease in rating caused by unresolved complaints could help to change the casino's approach. If the casino changes its decision, we will reopen the complaint and you will be notified by email. The casino can request to reopen this complaint anytime.

I sincerely hope you will not come across a problem like this again.

If you need any help, please contact me at branislav.b@casino.guru.

Best regards,

Branislav, Casino.Guru

Greetings all,

Based on the update received from the casino, we reopened the complaint.

"Dear Casino Guru Team,

We would like to inform you that we are ready to reconsider our decision regarding the complaint of the player Papaleole.

Our casino policy has been reconsidered and we are very sorry about this situation with the player Papaleole.

Please note that the Risk Department has reviewed the player's complaint and has taken all aspects of it into consideration.

In case of revision of the complaint of the player, under the rules of our project, we are ready (to withdraw to the account details from which were deposited to the gaming account within 10 working days) the sum of €365.38 specified in the complaint.

In the case of the payment of this amount, the player Papaleole has to confirm his agreement within 10 business days in this complaint and provide details of the payment system to which he wants to receive money.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department"

Dear Papaleole,

Since the reopening request was sent a few days ago, I sincerely believe the casino will count the stated 10 business days from now on.

Can you please confirm that the casino contacted you regarding your issue? Is there any progress?

If the issue has not been resolved yet, could you please provide the casino here with the requested payment method details?

(Please note personal details will be marked as "sensitive" and will be hidden from the public)

Thank you, Papaleole, for your quick response and the provided information.

Dear IceBet Casino team,

Is the casino able to process a withdrawal to the provided payment method? If not - what are the available payment methods for withdrawal, and how should withdrawal be requested, please?

Dear Papaleole,

We ask you to confirm the following paragraphs:

1) The amount of payment will be €365.38 according to the complaint.

2) Payment will be made to the Neteller(m**********s@gmail.com) wallet that you used before.

3) You agree to confirm the fact of receiving payment by providing a screenshot of your Neteller wallet, containing information about receiving the specified amount in this complaint.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department.

Dear IceBet Casino team.

1) I confirm that the payment will be €365.38 according to the complaint.

2) I confirm that the payment will be made to the Neteller (m**********s@gmail.com) wallet that i used before.

3) I agree to confirm the fact of receiving payment by providing a screenshot of my Neteller wallet, containing information about receiving the specified amount in this complaint.

Dear Papaleole,

We would like to inform you that the payment in the amount of €365.38 according to this complaint has been successfully made to the Neteller e-wallet that you indicated - m**********s@gmail.com.

Please confirm that you received payment and attach a screenshot of your Neteller e-wallet with the received amount to this complaint.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department.

Dear Casino Guru Team.

Dear Icebet casino team.

I confirm that i received the payment of €365.38 in my Neteller account.

I am attaching related screenshots.

I would like to thank both the Casino Guru team for the amazing work you do and the Icebet Casino team for reconsidering their decision.

I want to ask Icebet casino through this complaint, if possible, to reopen my account because this complaint is the reason I closed it.

I think that this move by the casino to reconsider its decision after a year shows credibility.

Thank you very much again.

Sincerely.

Michail P.

Dear Papaleole,

Thank you for your confirmation of the payment receipt.

We would like to inform you that your Papaleole account has been closed at your request.

According to the current rules of our casino, to reopen your account you should contact support@icebet.casino with a request to reopen your account.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department.

Dear Branislav,

As you can see all obligations to the player on this complaint have been fulfilled by our casino.

We ask you to consider closing the complaint.

Best regards.

Icebet Casino Risk Department.

What great news!

Thank you, Papaleole, for confirmation and for using the Casino Guru complaint resolution centre. I am very glad you have received your funds. As the main issue has been successfully resolved, and reactivation of your account is only in the casino's hands and consideration (the disputed amount was paid, and unfortunately, the decision to leave your account closed would not change the outcome of this complaint because the casino has the right to do it), we will now mark your complaint as 'resolved' in our system.

Although I sincerely hope it will not happen, please do not hesitate to contact us in the future if you run into any issues with this or any other casino. We are here to help.

Thank you, IceBet Casino, for your cooperation.

Best regards,

Branislav, Casino.guru